From tcreedon@easystreet.com Fri Jul 8 16:23:00 2005
From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon)
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 08:23:00 -0700
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
Message-ID: <20050708152305.854F02952A@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
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Ken Hornstein's FAQ is now in Latex format. Perhaps an update would be in
order for 1.4?
Obsolete docs and links are a real problem.
tedc
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Documetation for asetkey and aklog
Ken Hornstein's FAQ is now in Latex =
format. Perhaps an update would be in order for 1.4?
Obsolete docs and links are a real =
problem.
tedc
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From jaltman@columbia.edu Fri Jul 8 17:32:12 2005
From: jaltman@columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman)
Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 12:32:12 -0400
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
In-Reply-To: <20050708152305.854F02952A@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
References: <20050708152305.854F02952A@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <42CEAA8C.7060006@columbia.edu>
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ted creedon wrote:
> Ken Hornstein's FAQ is now in Latex format. Perhaps an update would be
> in order for 1.4?
>
> Obsolete docs and links are a real problem.
>
> tedc
Ted:
You really don't want to keep a FAQ in Latex format. There is no
need to have printed output. There are two requirements for a FAQ:
(1) it must be readily accessible in the Wiki
(2) it must be in plain text format so that it can be e-mailed.
If you want to spend time maintaining a FAQ, that is great but
please do so using the Wiki since that is where people look.
Thank you.
Jeffrey Altman
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From tcreedon@easystreet.com Fri Jul 8 17:51:05 2005
From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon)
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 09:51:05 -0700
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] RE: [OpenAFS] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <20050708165104.655CF29522@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
1. Yes.
2. He doesn't have time.
3. It can be in html and pdf.
4. Its more readable than before. The index is very helpful.
5. It took 1 hour to convert.
6. What is the documentation plan for the 1.4 release?
tedc
-----Original Message-----
From: Esther Filderman [mailto:mizmoose@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 9:35 AM
To: ted creedon
Cc: openafs-info@openafs.org; openafs-doc@openafs.org
Subject: Re: [OpenAFS] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
Did you even ask Ken first before mucking with his file(s)?
Please do not latex-ify the AFS FAQ.
e.
On 7/8/05, ted creedon wrote:
>
>
> Ken Hornstein's FAQ is now in Latex format. Perhaps an update would be
> in order for 1.4?
>
> Obsolete docs and links are a real problem.
>
> tedc
From tcreedon@easystreet.com Fri Jul 8 18:12:55 2005
From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon)
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:12:55 -0700
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] RE: [OpenAFS] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <20050708171254.D921B29533@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
There's a couple of docbook texts available but I'm out of time until
winter.
It would be advisable to investigate converting the IBM.htm directly into
docbook xml. The trouble with the Latex conversion is the reserved
characters (# . \ etc) in the htm don't map cleanly into Latex.
I suspect that docbook will never produce typeset pdf documents as
professional as Latex but the html should be acceptable. Knuth's Tex
algorithms are still the best.
Regarding Latex->html, the latex2html converter produces unacceptable
output, tth does much better but is licensed.
tedc
-----Original Message-----
From: openafs-info-admin@openafs.org [mailto:openafs-info-admin@openafs.org]
On Behalf Of Esther Filderman
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 9:56 AM
To: openafs-info@openafs.org; openafs-doc@openafs.org
Subject: Re: [OpenAFS] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
The html that the latex is putting out is not very clean. I'm looking at
DocBook [or will finish doing so once my dead AFS server is revived
-- oh the irony!] as a possibilty. If it passes muster [mainly, can it put
out clean output AND be easy enough to use] I'll look into converting your
Latex into DocBook.
If it's evil, we may stick with Latex.
On 7/8/05, ted creedon wrote:
> 1. Yes.
> 2. He doesn't have time.
> 3. It can be in html and pdf.
> 4. Its more readable than before. The index is very helpful.
> 5. It took 1 hour to convert.
> 6. What is the documentation plan for the 1.4 release?
>
> tedc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Esther Filderman [mailto:mizmoose@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 9:35 AM
> To: ted creedon
> Cc: openafs-info@openafs.org; openafs-doc@openafs.org
> Subject: Re: [OpenAFS] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
>
> Did you even ask Ken first before mucking with his file(s)?
>
> Please do not latex-ify the AFS FAQ.
>
> e.
>
>
> On 7/8/05, ted creedon wrote:
> >
> >
> > Ken Hornstein's FAQ is now in Latex format. Perhaps an update would
> > be in order for 1.4?
> >
> > Obsolete docs and links are a real problem.
> >
> > tedc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenAFS-info mailing list
> OpenAFS-info@openafs.org
> https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info
>
_______________________________________________
OpenAFS-info mailing list
OpenAFS-info@openafs.org
https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info
From tcreedon@easystreet.com Fri Jul 8 20:16:15 2005
From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon)
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:16:15 -0700
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] RE: [OpenAFS] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
In-Reply-To: <20050708190100.GB22841@astro.su.se>
Message-ID: <20050708191617.93649B032@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
Yes, but time was limited to learn about FO's.
I agree with the xml strategy, it would make life simpler in the long run.
tedc
-----Original Message-----
From: Sergio Gelato [mailto:Sergio.Gelato@astro.su.se]
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 12:01 PM
To: ted creedon
Subject: Re: [OpenAFS] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
* ted creedon [2005-07-08 10:12:55 -0700]:
> I suspect that docbook will never produce typeset pdf documents as
> professional as Latex
Have you looked at PassiveTeX? http://www.tei-c.org/Software/passivetex/
> Regarding Latex->html, the latex2html converter produces unacceptable
> output, tth does much better but is licensed.
That's one more reason for adopting XML as the source format.
From jaltman@columbia.edu Fri Jul 8 22:41:14 2005
From: jaltman@columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman)
Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:41:14 -0400
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] RE: [OpenAFS] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
In-Reply-To: <20050708191617.93649B032@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
References: <20050708191617.93649B032@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <42CEF2FA.6090905@columbia.edu>
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ted creedon wrote:
> Yes, but time was limited to learn about FO's.
>
> I agree with the xml strategy, it would make life simpler in the long run.
>
> tedc
XML == DocBook
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--------------ms030801020209070506080207--
From tcreedon@easystreet.com Sat Jul 9 00:26:05 2005
From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon)
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 16:26:05 -0700
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] RE: [OpenAFS] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
In-Reply-To: <42CEF2FA.6090905@columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <20050708232604.D39B029526@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
So write an FO
-----Original Message-----
From: openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org [mailto:openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org]
On Behalf Of Jeffrey Altman
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:41 PM
To: ted creedon
Cc: openafs-doc@openafs.org
Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-Doc] RE: [OpenAFS] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
ted creedon wrote:
> Yes, but time was limited to learn about FO's.
>
> I agree with the xml strategy, it would make life simpler in the long run.
>
> tedc
XML == DocBook
From tcreedon@easystreet.com Sat Jul 16 22:02:01 2005
From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 14:02:01 -0700
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] RE: [OpenAFS] OpenAFS Web page...
In-Reply-To: <2147483647.1121533005@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <20050716210201.B12FBB01E@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
Bil,
If you want editing and proofing, I'm willing to try to fit some of that
kind of work in (I've offered before). I don't know about updating--it's not
like I know that much about afs, especially server side--but I've got
experience editing.
Sorry to ask a stupid question, is there a single central repository for the
docs regardless of format?
> not yet except on my site
And is this a big enough issue to warrant a separate list?
>openafs-doc@openafs.org
FWIW, my experience has been that the frustrating thing about the
documentation I've been able to find so far is that it's very terse. I do
not mean that in a critical way, since I understand the shortness of time,
but that is a barrier to new adopters.
>Do you have access to Win Adobe Professional? It's a great way to comment
on the docs in pdf format.
>Do you have any experience with DocBook?
ted
--
________________________
bil hays
Network Manager
Computer Science, UNC CH
_______________________________________________
OpenAFS-info mailing list
OpenAFS-info@openafs.org
https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info
From tcreedon@easystreet.com Sun Jul 17 18:03:39 2005
From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon)
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 10:03:39 -0700
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] RE: [OpenAFS] OpenAFS Web page...
In-Reply-To: <42D9DBEF.4000208@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <20050717170340.31A45B013@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
All good questions, with no immediate answers.
>tgc:The book "Managing AFS" by Campbell is out of print and should really
be replaced by an "OpenAFS, Operation and Maintenance Manual".
Perhaps there are some other suggestions?
>tgc:I'd rather see raw content produced over form. It won't be by the
developers since they're buried with work. TXT or html files are OK with me,
the conversion to Latex is simple.
So, I take it this a matter of text conversion?
>tgc: Actually the publications are compiled from Latex source in a batch
process.
How do the docs get checked out of and back into CVS?
>tgc: I can set a CVS site up if openafs doesn't.
Who gives the approval before new editions or formats are released to the
public?
>tgc: Good question. Since the docs are in Latex/pdf/html format using a
collaborative review and comment system pretty much limits us to using
Adobe, unless pdf's are used with Chapter/Section/line numbers. This is
somewhat archaic but would suffice. The developers are the only people with
the knowledge to review...
Could someone interested in this get write access to an AFS directory on
openafs.org?
>tgc: Jaltman??
Michael
From Esther Filderman Fri Jul 8 17:35:22 2005
From: Esther Filderman (Esther Filderman)
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:35:22 -0400
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Re: [OpenAFS] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
In-Reply-To: <20050708152305.854F02952A@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
References: <20050708152305.854F02952A@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
Message-ID:
Did you even ask Ken first before mucking with his file(s)?
Please do not latex-ify the AFS FAQ.
e.
On 7/8/05, ted creedon wrote:
> =20
>=20
> Ken Hornstein's FAQ is now in Latex format. Perhaps an update would be in
> order for 1.4?=20
>=20
> Obsolete docs and links are a real problem.=20
>=20
> tedc
From Esther Filderman Fri Jul 8 17:56:05 2005
From: Esther Filderman (Esther Filderman)
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:56:05 -0400
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Re: [OpenAFS] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
In-Reply-To: <20050708165104.655CF29522@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
References:
<20050708165104.655CF29522@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
Message-ID:
The html that the latex is putting out is not very clean. I'm looking
at DocBook [or will finish doing so once my dead AFS server is revived
-- oh the irony!] as a possibilty. If it passes muster [mainly, can
it put out clean output AND be easy enough to use] I'll look into
converting your Latex into DocBook.
If it's evil, we may stick with Latex.
On 7/8/05, ted creedon wrote:
> 1. Yes.
> 2. He doesn't have time.
> 3. It can be in html and pdf.
> 4. Its more readable than before. The index is very helpful.
> 5. It took 1 hour to convert.
> 6. What is the documentation plan for the 1.4 release?
>=20
> tedc
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Esther Filderman [mailto:mizmoose@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 9:35 AM
> To: ted creedon
> Cc: openafs-info@openafs.org; openafs-doc@openafs.org
> Subject: Re: [OpenAFS] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
>=20
> Did you even ask Ken first before mucking with his file(s)?
>=20
> Please do not latex-ify the AFS FAQ.
>=20
> e.
>=20
>=20
> On 7/8/05, ted creedon wrote:
> >
> >
> > Ken Hornstein's FAQ is now in Latex format. Perhaps an update would be
> > in order for 1.4?
> >
> > Obsolete docs and links are a real problem.
> >
> > tedc
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> OpenAFS-info mailing list
> OpenAFS-info@openafs.org
> https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info
>
From steven.jenkins@ieee.org Fri Jul 8 18:43:10 2005
From: steven.jenkins@ieee.org (Steven Jenkins)
Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 10:43:10 -0700
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Re: SPAM-LOW: RE: [OpenAFS] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
In-Reply-To: <20050708171254.D921B29533@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
References: <20050708171254.D921B29533@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <42CEBB2E.30007@ieee.org>
ted creedon wrote:
> It would be advisable to investigate converting the IBM.htm directly into
> docbook xml. The trouble with the Latex conversion is the reserved
> characters (# . \ etc) in the htm don't map cleanly into Latex.
>
> I suspect that docbook will never produce typeset pdf documents as
> professional as Latex but the html should be acceptable. Knuth's Tex
> algorithms are still the best.
I've done some work on using DocBook to make both web documents and
high-quality PDFs. The approach I used was to put LaTeX hints into the
DocBook elements using the 'role' attribute. Role is ignored by most
downstream processing, but you can easily write a DocBook-to-LaTeX
converter that uses these hints to invoke the right high-level LaTeX
constructs.
For example, the closest thing in DocBook to a LaTeX theorem is a
. If you mark up your document with , the HTML converter does all it can, but the LaTeX
converter makes it a theorem.
I have Ruby code if anyone wants it.
Steve
From kenh@cmf.nrl.navy.mil Fri Jul 8 19:03:14 2005
From: kenh@cmf.nrl.navy.mil (Ken Hornstein)
Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 14:03:14 -0400
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Re: SPAM-LOW: RE: [OpenAFS] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
In-Reply-To: <42CEBB2E.30007@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <200507081803.j68I3Djr015435@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil>
>I've done some work on using DocBook to make both web documents and
>high-quality PDFs. The approach I used was to put LaTeX hints into the
>DocBook elements using the 'role' attribute. Role is ignored by most
>downstream processing, but you can easily write a DocBook-to-LaTeX
>converter that uses these hints to invoke the right high-level LaTeX
>constructs.
>
>For example, the closest thing in DocBook to a LaTeX theorem is a
>. If you mark up your document with role='theorem'>, the HTML converter does all it can, but the LaTeX
>converter makes it a theorem.
This illustrates _exactly_ my feelings about documentation formats.
Basically, I don't give a shit about 90% of the worthless crap that
these systems do (yeah, I'm going to be writing a WHOLE LOT of theorems
in the Kerberos FAQ); what I want is a simple layout that looks
reasonable in text and in HTML, and I want to learn the minimum
necessary to accomplish that. I have my HTML reference, and I remember
enough of the HTML tags that doing the FAQ in HTML isn't too bad. I
don't even have enough time to write the information that goes in the
FAQ (you know, the USEFUL stuff); there's NO WAY I'm going to learn
DocBook, POD, Latex, XML, TeXinfo, or whatever the latest exciting
new documentation format is when HTML is sufficient for my needs.
What you describe above is even worse; I'd have to learn both DocBook
_and_ LaTeX to make sense of that, and that's simply Not Going To
Happen.
Now, I told Ted that I didn't have a problem with him converting the
FAQ into LaTeX, and that's true ... but at that point I feel it no
longer becomes my FAQ, it becomes his. If I ever get around to updating
it (which may or may not happen, I have no idea right now), I won't
be updating the LaTeX version, I'll be updating my version. If Ted
wants to take it over, and his version becomes the one that people
update, then hey, that's fine with me; I'll retire my version and
point people to it.
--Ken
From Esther Filderman Fri Jul 8 19:31:16 2005
From: Esther Filderman (Esther Filderman)
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 14:31:16 -0400
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Re: SPAM-LOW: RE: [OpenAFS] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
In-Reply-To: <200507081803.j68I3Djr015435@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil>
References: <42CEBB2E.30007@ieee.org>
<200507081803.j68I3Djr015435@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID:
On 7/8/05, Ken Hornstein wrote:
> This illustrates _exactly_ my feelings about documentation formats.
> Basically, I don't give a shit about 90% of the worthless crap that
> these systems do (yeah, I'm going to be writing a WHOLE LOT of theorems
> in the Kerberos FAQ); what I want is a simple layout that looks
> reasonable in text and in HTML, and I want to learn the minimum
> necessary to accomplish that. I have my HTML reference, and I remember
> enough of the HTML tags that doing the FAQ in HTML isn't too bad. I
> don't even have enough time to write the information that goes in the
> FAQ (you know, the USEFUL stuff); there's NO WAY I'm going to learn
> DocBook, POD, Latex, XML, TeXinfo, or whatever the latest exciting
> new documentation format is when HTML is sufficient for my needs.
If I had my way, we'd be doing straight HTML for documentation and
[whatever Russ wants] for Man pages. However, since I was apparently
sick when a "decision" was made to go to LaTex, I missed out on having
an opinion.
I've been yelled at by a small, vocal pile of people that "we have to
make pretty documents." I keep yelling back that "pretty" is damned
useless if people can't update it.
If DocBook takes me more than 15 minutes to figure out, it's going out
the window. Really. I don't know LaTex either, and looking at it
makes my eyes bleed.
Really, this whole "documentation project" has become a thorn in my
side. I'm doing what I can with a bunch of people all screaming, "NO!
Do it MY WAY!" It's supposed to be "my" decision on what we do but
everytime I state my "decision" I the screaming starts again.
Today's Rant is brought to you by the letters C, S, and P. Put them
in order and you spell, "I need a new job."
From steven.jenkins@ieee.org Fri Jul 8 19:32:48 2005
From: steven.jenkins@ieee.org (Steven Jenkins)
Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:32:48 -0700
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: RE: [OpenAFS] Documetation for asetkey
and aklog
In-Reply-To: <200507081803.j68I3Djr015435@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil>
References: <200507081803.j68I3Djr015435@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <42CEC6D0.2060505@ieee.org>
Ken Hornstein wrote:
> This illustrates _exactly_ my feelings about documentation formats.
> Basically, I don't give a shit about 90% of the worthless crap that
> these systems do (yeah, I'm going to be writing a WHOLE LOT of theorems
> in the Kerberos FAQ); what I want is a simple layout that looks
> [remainder of rant deleted]
Three points:
1. My message was information and an offer of help. It wasn't even a
recommendation. If you don't want it, don't take it. You don't need to
unload a bunch of attitude on me.
2. The theorem example was just that, an example. Would you be less
annoyed if the roles were FAQ-specific stuff like 'question' and
'answer'? With a little work, the subset of DocBook you'd have to know
would be *tiny*, and the subset of LaTeX you'd have to know would be *zero*.
3. The lesson that logical markup is better than visual has only been
learned ten gazillion times. If you're happy with HTML markup, great.
But it's not like this is an open question.
Steve
From kenh@cmf.nrl.navy.mil Fri Jul 8 19:53:02 2005
From: kenh@cmf.nrl.navy.mil (Ken Hornstein)
Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 14:53:02 -0400
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: RE: [OpenAFS] Documetation for asetkey and aklog
In-Reply-To: <42CEC6D0.2060505@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <200507081853.j68Ir2q9016341@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil>
>1. My message was information and an offer of help. It wasn't even a
>recommendation. If you don't want it, don't take it. You don't need to
>unload a bunch of attitude on me.
Sigh. I apologize for that; the whole documentation mess has been something
I wished I could ignore, and the rant really wasn't directed at you; it
was just a general rant.
>2. The theorem example was just that, an example. Would you be less
>annoyed if the roles were FAQ-specific stuff like 'question' and
>'answer'? With a little work, the subset of DocBook you'd have to know
>would be *tiny*, and the subset of LaTeX you'd have to know would be *zero*.
The problem I have is "tiny" is greater than "zero". Even a tiny
amount of time is time I don't have. This is completely aside from the
problem that I don't have DocBook on any of the systems I have here and
I'd have to install it (actually, okay, I was curious and I checked it
out; it's not clear to me from a few minutes of Google exactly _what_
DocBook consists of; is just XML schema? If so, where do I get the
tools to process it? _What_ tools do I need?)
And while you say that the amount of DocBook that I need to know is
tiny, the real problem is that I have almost no experience with SGML or
XML, and I'd have to learn a bunch of stuff just to be able to GET
anywhere with it; we don't have any of the tools or experience in-house
here, and without that infrastructure I'd have to spend a ton of time
working on it to be able to make any progress with it. Years ago
I had the time to spend a week messing around with a TeX installation
to get it working, but I don't anymore (okay, it may only take a day or
two, but again, don't have the time).
>3. The lesson that logical markup is better than visual has only been
>learned ten gazillion times. If you're happy with HTML markup, great.
>But it's not like this is an open question.
I'm not disagreeing with you; I simply don't care. See previous discussion
re: lack of time.
--Ken
From tcreedon@easystreet.com Tue Jul 19 16:57:25 2005
From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 08:57:25 -0700
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] RE: [OpenAFS] Documentation - again
In-Reply-To: <42DC7122.4020804@columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <20050719155725.B2EDB29526@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
Suffice it to say I can always make pdf's from html's so the source format
(Latex, docbook) is not too relevant to a pdf specific deliverable.
In terms of direction I think we need:
1. An Operation and Maintenance Manual - The semantics of AFS are only
covered in Campbell's book which is out of print. A new book is needed.
In particular:
A. Large and small installation examples need to be added.
B. Jeff Alberry's perl administration tools need to be included.
C. Ken Hornstein's Kerberos 5 conversion needs slight updating and inclusion
D. The existing kaserver (KRB 4) needs to be depreciated and replaced with
KRB 5.
E. Building AFS from sources needs to be added, including appropriate KRB5
material.
2. The syntax which is well covered in the IBM docs needs updating.
3. It is a requirement that the style follow the IBM "Typographical
Conventions" in the front of each manual. The conventions do not specify
what is to be hyperlinked or indexed.
4. The Latex version has some hyperlinking but it is not as extensive as the
IBM htm's. The Latex version does not support indexing although it could
with yet more perl scripting.
Note: The IBM indexing is 2 or 3 levels deep, i.e. subject, sub-subject,
subsub-subject. This needs a project in itself to implement.
I recommend getting the textual part of any additions & improvements done
first, we need content ASAP.
If we wait for the perfect embodiment of the sources in Latex or DocBook,
nothing will ever get done.
tedc
-----Original Message-----
From: openafs-info-admin@openafs.org [mailto:openafs-info-admin@openafs.org]
On Behalf Of Jeffrey Altman
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 8:19 PM
To: Michael Norwick
Cc: OpenAFS-Info
Subject: Re: [OpenAFS] Documentation - again
Michael:
The documentation project is being run by Esther .
There is a mailing list dedicated to the effort. You can subscribe and view
the archives at:
https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-doc
There is a cvs tree with the IBM sources. Currently the focus is on
determining which of the various source formats will support all of the
desired outputs while still providing a significant ease of use. Once
the sources to the documents are brought current it must be possible for the
developers to make changes easily. Otherwise, the documentation simply will
not get updated in a timely manner.
If you can contribute to the evaluation, that would be quite helpful.
Jeffrey Altman
Michael Norwick wrote:
> Well,
>
> No word yet on what if anything needs to be done for AFS documentation.
> I am willing to give DocBook a whirl if it is deemed needed or
> acceptable by the group. I am trying to trash
> FC4 test 3 on a server right now but I could begin as soon as I get
> this thing back up under Debian stable, have access to the docs, and a
> sense of direction i.e. 'a clue'.
> I've considered the depth and breadth of the IBM/Transarc docs but we
> have to start somewhere. Or, maybe I don't have to eat the whole
> elephant in one sitting. Let me know what you want, or, I could just
> go and play with the
> NFSv4 people.
>
> Good Day,
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> OpenAFS-info mailing list
> OpenAFS-info@openafs.org
> https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info
From mnorwick@centurytel.net Wed Jul 20 04:32:19 2005
From: mnorwick@centurytel.net (Michael D. Norwick)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 22:32:19 -0500
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Re: [OpenAFS] Documentation - again
In-Reply-To: <42DC7122.4020804@columbia.edu>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20050714111751.01d62640@unccmail.uncc.edu> <151937ACD730325B6F0E5002@sirius.fac.cs.cmu.edu> <42DC6A28.8020201@centurytel.net> <42DC7122.4020804@columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <42DDC5C3.3050206@centurytel.net>
Jeffrey Altman wrote:
>Michael:
>
>The documentation project is being run by Esther .
>There is a mailing list dedicated to the effort. You can subscribe
>and view the archives at:
>
> https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-doc
>
>There is a cvs tree with the IBM sources. Currently the focus is on
>determining which of the various source formats will support all of the
>desired outputs while still providing a significant ease of use. Once
>the sources to the documents are brought current it must be possible for
>the developers to make changes easily. Otherwise, the documentation
>simply will not get updated in a timely manner.
>
>If you can contribute to the evaluation, that would be quite helpful.
>
>Jeffrey Altman
>
>
>Michael Norwick wrote:
>
>
>
>>Well,
>>
>>No word yet on what if anything needs to be done for AFS documentation.
>>I am willing to give DocBook a whirl if
>>it is deemed needed or acceptable by the group. I am trying to trash
>>FC4 test 3 on a server right now but I could begin
>>as soon as I get this thing back up under Debian stable, have access to
>>the docs, and a sense of direction i.e. 'a clue'.
>>I've considered the depth and breadth of the IBM/Transarc docs but we
>>have to start somewhere. Or, maybe I don't
>>have to eat the whole elephant in one sitting. Let me know what you
>>want, or, I could just go and play with the
>>NFSv4 people.
>>
>>Good Day,
>>Michael
>>_______________________________________________
>>OpenAFS-info mailing list
>>OpenAFS-info@openafs.org
>>https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info
>>
>>
So, I pose the question again. Where and when do I start?
Michael
From Esther Filderman Wed Jul 20 04:34:36 2005
From: Esther Filderman (Esther Filderman)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 23:34:36 -0400
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Re: [OpenAFS] Documentation - again
In-Reply-To: <42DDC5C3.3050206@centurytel.net>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20050714111751.01d62640@unccmail.uncc.edu>
<151937ACD730325B6F0E5002@sirius.fac.cs.cmu.edu>
<42DC6A28.8020201@centurytel.net> <42DC7122.4020804@columbia.edu>
<42DDC5C3.3050206@centurytel.net>
Message-ID:
Hi, guys,
Give me a bit of time, I started looking into things and then went
back to work after a long illness. Needless to say, my backlogs
backlog got backlogged and I'm a bit swamped. I'll try hard to have
something more definite by the weekend.
Thanks for your patience.
e.
On 7/19/05, Michael D. Norwick wrote:
> Jeffrey Altman wrote:
>=20
> >Michael:
> >
> >The documentation project is being run by Esther .
> >There is a mailing list dedicated to the effort. You can subscribe
> >and view the archives at:
> >
> > https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-doc
> >
> >There is a cvs tree with the IBM sources. Currently the focus is on
> >determining which of the various source formats will support all of the
> >desired outputs while still providing a significant ease of use. Once
> >the sources to the documents are brought current it must be possible for
> >the developers to make changes easily. Otherwise, the documentation
> >simply will not get updated in a timely manner.
> >
> >If you can contribute to the evaluation, that would be quite helpful.
> >
> >Jeffrey Altman
> >
> >
> >Michael Norwick wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Well,
> >>
> >>No word yet on what if anything needs to be done for AFS documentation.
> >>I am willing to give DocBook a whirl if
> >>it is deemed needed or acceptable by the group. I am trying to trash
> >>FC4 test 3 on a server right now but I could begin
> >>as soon as I get this thing back up under Debian stable, have access to
> >>the docs, and a sense of direction i.e. 'a clue'.
> >>I've considered the depth and breadth of the IBM/Transarc docs but we
> >>have to start somewhere. Or, maybe I don't
> >>have to eat the whole elephant in one sitting. Let me know what you
> >>want, or, I could just go and play with the
> >>NFSv4 people.
> >>
> >>Good Day,
> >>Michael
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>OpenAFS-info mailing list
> >>OpenAFS-info@openafs.org
> >>https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info
> >>
> >>
> So, I pose the question again. Where and when do I start?
>=20
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> OpenAFS-doc mailing list
> OpenAFS-doc@openafs.org
> https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-doc
>
From tcreedon@easystreet.com Wed Jul 20 16:20:21 2005
From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 08:20:21 -0700
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Re: [OpenAFS] Documentation - again
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <20050720152022.2BC3829531@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
GnuCash uses DocBook.
Tidy converts the IBM .htm into .xhtml.
tedc
-----Original Message-----
From: openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org [mailto:openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org]
On Behalf Of Esther Filderman
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 8:35 PM
To: openafs-doc
Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-Doc] Re: [OpenAFS] Documentation - again
Hi, guys,
Give me a bit of time, I started looking into things and then went back to
work after a long illness. Needless to say, my backlogs backlog got
backlogged and I'm a bit swamped. I'll try hard to have something more
definite by the weekend.
Thanks for your patience.
e.
On 7/19/05, Michael D. Norwick wrote:
> Jeffrey Altman wrote:
>
> >Michael:
> >
> >The documentation project is being run by Esther .
> >There is a mailing list dedicated to the effort. You can subscribe
> >and view the archives at:
> >
> > https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-doc
> >
> >There is a cvs tree with the IBM sources. Currently the focus is on
> >determining which of the various source formats will support all of the
> >desired outputs while still providing a significant ease of use. Once
> >the sources to the documents are brought current it must be possible
> >for the developers to make changes easily. Otherwise, the
> >documentation simply will not get updated in a timely manner.
> >
> >If you can contribute to the evaluation, that would be quite helpful.
> >
> >Jeffrey Altman
> >
> >
> >Michael Norwick wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Well,
> >>
> >>No word yet on what if anything needs to be done for AFS documentation.
> >>I am willing to give DocBook a whirl if it is deemed needed or
> >>acceptable by the group. I am trying to trash
> >>FC4 test 3 on a server right now but I could begin as soon as I get
> >>this thing back up under Debian stable, have access to the docs, and
> >>a sense of direction i.e. 'a clue'.
> >>I've considered the depth and breadth of the IBM/Transarc docs but
> >>we have to start somewhere. Or, maybe I don't have to eat the whole
> >>elephant in one sitting. Let me know what you want, or, I could
> >>just go and play with the
> >>NFSv4 people.
> >>
> >>Good Day,
> >>Michael
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>OpenAFS-info mailing list
> >>OpenAFS-info@openafs.org
> >>https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info
> >>
> >>
> So, I pose the question again. Where and when do I start?
>
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> OpenAFS-doc mailing list
> OpenAFS-doc@openafs.org
> https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-doc
>
_______________________________________________
OpenAFS-doc mailing list
OpenAFS-doc@openafs.org
https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-doc
From mnorwick@centurytel.net Thu Jul 21 00:15:40 2005
From: mnorwick@centurytel.net (Michael D. Norwick)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 18:15:40 -0500
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Documentation evaluation
Message-ID: <42DEDB1C.4020906@centurytel.net>
As Mr. Altman pointed out (and I agree) an evaluation of the sources
of the current documentation
needs to be done. I may be wrong but it appears that Mr. Creedon has
been doing some amount of
work on HTML-ization of certain docs. I would like to know what his
exact sources were and where
I can find them in order to review them against what I already have
(versioning?). Do the current
Web pages follow a particular stable version of OpenAFS, or are they
more general, depending on the
reader to review changelogs in the source (code) to find out about new
or obsolete methods?
I'm playing a little bit dumb here as I have my own answers to these
questions. I would also like to
apologize to Ms. Filderman for my current lack of knowledge on her
contributions.
I want to compliment those involved with the OpenAFS project. I
just got done with an OpenAFS
client installation from rpms that took less than 30 minutes, and most
of that time was waiting for the
cache to fill. I have limited programming skills but consider myself a
scriptorian (bash that is..) and
I am familiar with most of the editing and programming tools offered
under current Linux distributions.
I've collected references ranging from single page HOWTO's (which
worked) to the 816 page IBM
AFS Reference (and I read most of them too!). From converting to open
source, to integrating with
current authentication methods, to making OpenAFS available on numerous
platforms, you've all
done a great work and I, for one, Thank You.
Michael
PS I'm also just a guy in a basement, with a network and a vision.
Don't hold that against me :)
From tcreedon@easystreet.com Thu Jul 21 02:29:02 2005
From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 18:29:02 -0700
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Documentation evaluation
In-Reply-To: <42DEDB1C.4020906@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <20050721012902.8087629523@smtpauth.easystreet.com>
Welcome to AFS.
Comments below.
tedc
-----Original Message-----
From: openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org [mailto:openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org]
On Behalf Of Michael D. Norwick
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 4:16 PM
To: openafs-doc
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Documentation evaluation
As Mr. Altman pointed out (and I agree) an evaluation of the sources of
the current documentation needs to be done.
>tedc Current sources are in IBM htm and IBM pdf best versions are included
with the distribution.
I may be wrong but it appears that Mr. Creedon has been doing some amount
of work on HTML-ization of certain docs.
>tedc No. I converted the IBM htm's to Latex which then re-emits html and
pdf. The main conversion script uses tidy (to update the htm's),
html2latex.pl (with lots of mods) and a post conversion set of cleanup perl
scripts.
I would like to know what his exact sources were and where I can find them
in order to review them against what I already have (versioning?).
>tedc My Latex sources and converson tooling stream on ftp.creedon.biz
Do the current Web pages follow a particular stable version of OpenAFS, or
are they more general, depending on the reader to review changelogs in the
source (code) to find out about new or obsolete methods?
>tedc IBM docs haven't been updated in 5 years. They are apparently sourced
in a very sophisticated IBM internal format.
I'm playing a little bit dumb here as I have my own answers to these
questions. I would also like to apologize to Ms. Filderman for my current
lack of knowledge on her contributions.
I want to compliment those involved with the OpenAFS project. I just
got done with an OpenAFS client installation from rpms that took less than
30 minutes, and most of that time was waiting for the cache to fill. I have
limited programming skills but consider myself a scriptorian (bash that
is..) and I am familiar with most of the editing and programming tools
offered under current Linux distributions.
I've collected references ranging from single page HOWTO's (which worked) to
the 816 page IBM
AFS Reference (and I read most of them too!). From converting to open
source, to integrating with current authentication methods, to making
OpenAFS available on numerous platforms, you've all done a great work and I,
for one, Thank You.
>tedc Positive input!
Michael
PS I'm also just a guy in a basement, with a network and a vision.
Don't hold that against me :)
_______________________________________________
OpenAFS-doc mailing list
OpenAFS-doc@openafs.org
https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-doc
From mnorwick@centurytel.net Thu Jul 28 23:23:09 2005
From: mnorwick@centurytel.net (Michael D. Norwick)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 17:23:09 -0500
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Re: [OpenAFS-devel] vmalloc memory leak in 1.3.84/85?
In-Reply-To: <7D30D30B331B72D7BD864A32@endicott>
References: <20050723232010.GA7013@poobah.Stanford.EDU> <20050727163226.GH8061@poobah.Stanford.EDU> <992B6EF3A252D6CE52839C2C@sphinx.andrew.cmu.edu> <20050728170004.GC8057@cipher.Stanford.EDU> <7D30D30B331B72D7BD864A32@endicott>
Message-ID: <42E95ACD.7070801@centurytel.net>
Chaskiel M Grundman wrote:
>
>
> --On Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:00:04 AM -0700 Miles Davis
> wrote:
>
>>> you could try enabling pag garbage collection
>>> sysctl -w afs.GCPAGs=1
>>
>>
>> Huh... I had no idea those were there. The default seems to be 2 -- what
>> does that mean, and are these documented somewhere?
>
>> Documentation on new features? hah.
>
Gee, seems like I had some dialog on this ohhhh, last week? No
direction has yet been forthcoming.
>>
>>
>> 2 is AFS_GCPAGS_USERDISABLED
>> only a value of 1 (AFS_GCPAGS_OK) will cause the garbage collector to
>> run. I think that the point of the non-zero disable value is because
>> the macro AFS_GCPAGS is used both as a compile time directive (#if
>> AFS_GCPAGS), but is also the initializer for the run-time variable
>> afs_gcpags (which is what the sysctl modifies and affects the runtime
>> behavior of the code when it is compile-time enabled). There are
>> other possible values for afs_gcpags, which indicate that the code
>> disabled itself due to encountering an error while examining process
>> lists.
>
Michael
From Esther Filderman Fri Jul 29 03:30:38 2005
From: Esther Filderman (Esther Filderman)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 22:30:38 -0400
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Re: [OpenAFS-devel] vmalloc memory leak in 1.3.84/85?
In-Reply-To: <42E95ACD.7070801@centurytel.net>
References: <20050723232010.GA7013@poobah.Stanford.EDU>
<20050727163226.GH8061@poobah.Stanford.EDU>
<992B6EF3A252D6CE52839C2C@sphinx.andrew.cmu.edu>
<20050728170004.GC8057@cipher.Stanford.EDU>
<7D30D30B331B72D7BD864A32@endicott> <42E95ACD.7070801@centurytel.net>
Message-ID:
Yep, sorry about that. A minor disaster cropped up [I'd forgotten I
had to give a talk last Saturday!!] and I got swamped with that.
I promise I'll get straight on things this weekend.
e.
On 7/28/05, Michael D. Norwick wrote:
> Chaskiel M Grundman wrote:
>=20
> >
> >
> > --On Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:00:04 AM -0700 Miles Davis
> > wrote:
> >
> >>> you could try enabling pag garbage collection
> >>> sysctl -w afs.GCPAGs=3D1
> >>
> >>
> >> Huh... I had no idea those were there. The default seems to be 2 -- wh=
at
> >> does that mean, and are these documented somewhere?
> >
>=20
> >> Documentation on new features? hah.
> >
> Gee, seems like I had some dialog on this ohhhh, last week? No
> direction has yet been forthcoming.
>=20
> >>
> >>
> >> 2 is AFS_GCPAGS_USERDISABLED
> >> only a value of 1 (AFS_GCPAGS_OK) will cause the garbage collector to
> >> run. I think that the point of the non-zero disable value is because
> >> the macro AFS_GCPAGS is used both as a compile time directive (#if
> >> AFS_GCPAGS), but is also the initializer for the run-time variable
> >> afs_gcpags (which is what the sysctl modifies and affects the runtime
> >> behavior of the code when it is compile-time enabled). There are
> >> other possible values for afs_gcpags, which indicate that the code
> >> disabled itself due to encountering an error while examining process
> >> lists.
> >
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> OpenAFS-doc mailing list
> OpenAFS-doc@openafs.org
> https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-doc
>
From shadow@dementia.org Sat Jul 30 06:09:02 2005
From: shadow@dementia.org (Derrick J Brashear)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 01:09:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Re: [OpenAFS-devel] vmalloc memory leak in 1.3.84/85?
In-Reply-To: <42E95ACD.7070801@centurytel.net>
References: <20050723232010.GA7013@poobah.Stanford.EDU>
<20050727163226.GH8061@poobah.Stanford.EDU> <992B6EF3A252D6CE52839C2C@sphinx.andrew.cmu.edu>
<20050728170004.GC8057@cipher.Stanford.EDU> <7D30D30B331B72D7BD864A32@endicott>
<42E95ACD.7070801@centurytel.net>
Message-ID:
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005, Michael D. Norwick wrote:
>>> Documentation on new features? hah.
>>
> Gee, seems like I had some dialog on this ohhhh, last week? No
> direction has yet been forthcoming.
Well, when you figure out how to add hours to the day, I bet you can get
people to tell you about new features. No hours have been forthcoming.