From tcreedon@easystreet.com Sat Jun 11 01:16:19 2005 From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:16:19 -0700 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] RE: [OpenAFS] Documentation project comments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050611001619.A9C56B023@smtpauth.easystreet.com> Try the html tarball posted to bugs. It's the manual updating of the hyperlinks that could be worrisome, unless the hrefs are all pulled out and replaced with \label, \index and \ref's. This might be the best thing to try since some downstream converters don't support the hyperref package. Despite the the lack of automatic hyperlinks, the latex in the tarball is easily edited, one just has to watch the link numbering. (The IBM documentation package apparently generated them automatically). tedc -----Original Message----- From: openafs-info-admin@openafs.org [mailto:openafs-info-admin@openafs.org] On Behalf Of Esther Filderman Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 12:08 PM To: openafs-info@openafs.org Subject: Re: [OpenAFS] Documentation project comments On 6/10/05, ted creedon wrote: > For what its worth, I think html documentation with hyperlinks is not > the best way to go. It just happened to get done first on the second > round of conversions. Yes, you've made your bias clear since you started this. While I sincerely appreciate your effort, we MUST have documentation that's available online. Requiring people to download giant postscript or pdf files to look up one command is ludicrious. >>ps is not practical. Making things look pretty is fine, but they also have to be usable. In the end, HTML is likely going to be the most used. >>Or POD, possibly. The market will determine that. If html is predominatly used then the hyperlinking needs to be cleaned up so its automatic, not manual. _______________________________________________ OpenAFS-info mailing list OpenAFS-info@openafs.org https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info From tcreedon@easystreet.com Mon Jun 13 16:48:50 2005 From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:48:50 -0700 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] IBM documentation copyrights Message-ID: <20050613154850.E49BF2952F@smtpauth.easystreet.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0323_01C56FF4.B8B63760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any guidance on the IBM copyrights included in the existing documentation? tedc ------=_NextPart_000_0323_01C56FF4.B8B63760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IBM documentation copyrights

Any guidance on the IBM copyrights = included in the existing documentation?

tedc

------=_NextPart_000_0323_01C56FF4.B8B63760-- From jaltman@columbia.edu Mon Jun 13 17:13:12 2005 From: jaltman@columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:13:12 -0400 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] IBM documentation copyrights In-Reply-To: <20050613160101.2F2EA9C46@grand.central.org> References: <20050613160101.2F2EA9C46@grand.central.org> Message-ID: <42ADB098.1050401@columbia.edu> This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms090106020909080407070205 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What kind of guidance are you looking for? Unless you are starting from scratch and not using the IBM docs as a base the IBM copyrights must remain. 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From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:04:21 -0700 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] IBM documentation copyrights In-Reply-To: <42ADB098.1050401@columbia.edu> Message-ID: <20050614000421.ECCF2295D7@smtpauth.easystreet.com> Yes, but has a right to copy and distribute been granted to the general public? tedc -----Original Message----- From: openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org [mailto:openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Altman Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 9:13 AM To: openafs-doc@openafs.org Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] IBM documentation copyrights What kind of guidance are you looking for? Unless you are starting from scratch and not using the IBM docs as a base the IBM copyrights must remain. Jeffrey Altman > Any guidance on the IBM copyrights included in the existing documentation? > > tedc From rra@stanford.edu Tue Jun 14 01:05:47 2005 From: rra@stanford.edu (Russ Allbery) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:05:47 -0700 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] IBM documentation copyrights In-Reply-To: <20050614000421.ECCF2295D7@smtpauth.easystreet.com> (ted creedon's message of "Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:04:21 -0700") References: <20050614000421.ECCF2295D7@smtpauth.easystreet.com> Message-ID: <87zmttls4k.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu> ted creedon writes: > Yes, but has a right to copy and distribute been granted to the general > public? The documentation appears to be covered under the same license as the code, according to the LICENSE file in the doc tree. So yes. -- Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu) From jaltman@columbia.edu Tue Jun 14 02:01:11 2005 From: jaltman@columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:01:11 -0400 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] IBM documentation copyrights In-Reply-To: <20050614000421.ECCF2295D7@smtpauth.easystreet.com> References: <20050614000421.ECCF2295D7@smtpauth.easystreet.com> Message-ID: <42AE2C57.4030003@columbia.edu> This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms090304020309010006030400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ted creedon wrote: > Yes, but has a right to copy and distribute been granted to the general > public? > > tedc Ted: The license for the docs are the same as for the source code. If you believe there is an issue, please be more specific. 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-0700 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Docs on web site Message-ID: <20050617172452.13E7AB022@smtpauth.easystreet.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0574_01C57326.CC3F5020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://creedon.biz has links to the Latex'd AFS docs in pdf format. ftp://creedon.biz has tarred Latex sources - both complete working directories and just the Latex source directories. The html docs are in their own set of directories, the pdf in another due to postprocessing required to get around the html conversion glitches. The correct pdf files to view are the *003.* files, e.g. aurns003.tex, .dvi, .pdf. Using YAP (miktex) the dvi's are viewable under windows. Using Adobe, the search window highlights all instances and provides a list of instances to click on. FYI the pdf root files are the *003.tex files, 000.tex and 002.tex are indexes obsoleted by Latex's table of contents. Edit away..Beware of the reserved character coding for \ { } $ & # ^ _ % ~ The reserved character coding is different depending on the environment its wrapped in. If these characters are miscoded they can affect the remainder of the document. In particular, \ can be \backslash or \texttt{\symbol{92}} The web site is temporary.. tedc ------=_NextPart_000_0574_01C57326.CC3F5020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Docs on web site

http://creedon.biz has links to the Latex'd AFS docs in pdf format.

ftp://creedon.biz has tarred Latex sources - both complete working = directories and just the Latex source directories.

The html docs are in their own set of = directories, the pdf in another due to postprocessing required to get = around the html conversion glitches.

The correct pdf files to view are the = *003.* files, e.g. aurns003.tex, .dvi, .pdf.  Using YAP (miktex) = the dvi's are viewable under windows.

Using Adobe, the search window = highlights all instances and provides a list of instances to click on. =

FYI the pdf root files are the *003.tex = files, 000.tex and 002.tex are indexes obsoleted by Latex's table of = contents.

Edit away..Beware of the reserved = character coding for \ { } $ & # ^ _ %  ~

The reserved character coding is = different depending on the environment its wrapped in. If these = characters are miscoded they can affect the remainder of the document. = In particular, \ can be \backslash or \texttt{\symbol{92}}

The web site is = temporary….

tedc

------=_NextPart_000_0574_01C57326.CC3F5020-- From tcreedon@easystreet.com Mon Jun 27 20:39:21 2005 From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:39:21 -0700 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available Message-ID: <20050627193921.71E10B020@smtpauth.easystreet.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C57B15.3E17E450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The final versions of the documentation project are viewable from http://creedon.biz. The docs can be viewed on line however the DSL line is fairly slow and it is suggested that the link to ftp://creedon.biz be used to download sources or just the pdf's and html's. The README.TXT file has directions. Both the html and pdf's were created from the same Latex source files. Separate directories for html and pdf are no longer necessary. Perhaps someone could review the finals and put into cvs? tedc ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C57B15.3E17E450 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available

The final versions of the documentation = project are viewable from http://creedon.biz.

The docs can be viewed on line however = the DSL line is fairly slow and it is suggested that the link to = ftp://creedon.biz be used to download sources or just the pdf's and = html's.

The README.TXT file has = directions… Both the html and pdf's were created from the same = Latex source files. Separate directories for html and pdf are no longer = necessary.

Perhaps someone could review the finals = and put into cvs?

tedc

------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C57B15.3E17E450-- From jaltman@columbia.edu Mon Jun 27 20:47:20 2005 From: jaltman@columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:47:20 -0400 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available In-Reply-To: <20050627193921.71E10B020@smtpauth.easystreet.com> References: <20050627193921.71E10B020@smtpauth.easystreet.com> Message-ID: <42C057C8.10508@columbia.edu> This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms000000010106070005070508 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ted creedon wrote: > The final versions of the documentation project are viewable from > _http://creedon.biz_. > > The docs can be viewed on line however the DSL line is fairly slow and > it is suggested that the link to _ftp://creedon.biz_ be used to download > sources or just the pdf's and html's. > > The README.TXT file has directions… Both the html and pdf's were created > from the same Latex source files. Separate directories for html and pdf > are no longer necessary. > > Perhaps someone could review the finals and put into cvs? > > tedc > As project owner for documentation, Moose will be the one to review and determine if they should be committed to cvs. Jeffrey Altman --------------ms000000010106070005070508 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJPzCC AvowggJjoAMCAQICAw7NrDANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFADBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UE ChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNv bmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0EwHhcNMDUwNTI3MTc0MjQzWhcNMDYwNTI3MTc0MjQz WjBrMQ8wDQYDVQQEEwZBbHRtYW4xFTATBgNVBCoTDEplZmZyZXkgRXJpYzEcMBoGA1UEAxMT SmVmZnJleSBFcmljIEFsdG1hbjEjMCEGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYUamFsdG1hbkBjb2x1bWJpYS5l 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yourself. one of the requirements is that the tools used to produce and maintain the documentation must be deemed usable by those responsible for the project. Moose is the person responsible for documentation. While I am a strong believer that those who do the work get significant points, there has been a significant lack of consensus on the tools you selected to perform this work. There have been complaints that the tools are too hard to use and that they cannot be used to produce one of the required outputs: man pages. There have been suggestions made that other tools are better suited for this effort including: * POD files * DocBook * HTML Of these my preference is either POD or DocBook. I prefer DocBook because it has been used extensively by other open source projects to generate both man pages and online documentation. I like DocBook because it can be used to produce Windows HtmlHelp files as well as HTML and PDF. The benefits of the use of any of these formats over Tex are ease of use. Tex is most definitely the best tool to use for generating precise formatting for technical output. However, that is not a requirement for this effort. For this effort, we need simplicity, the ability for all contributors to understand the format, and the ability to to produce the requisite outputs (preferably as part of the build system.) POD files are nice in this respect since anyone that has Perl on their system is able to generate man pages and html from POD files. I require simplicity because I want to make it a requirement that all source code contributions to the project are accompanied by documentation updates. I can't make that requirement if the documentation language is too complex. Regardless, the final decision belong's to Moose. Jeffrey Altman P.S. - Private discussions on this topic are inappropriate. Please keep all discussions on the subject of openafs documentation on the mailing list. --------------ms050406010001000601060308 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJPzCC AvowggJjoAMCAQICAw7NrDANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFADBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UE ChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNv bmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0EwHhcNMDUwNTI3MTc0MjQzWhcNMDYwNTI3MTc0MjQz WjBrMQ8wDQYDVQQEEwZBbHRtYW4xFTATBgNVBCoTDEplZmZyZXkgRXJpYzEcMBoGA1UEAxMT SmVmZnJleSBFcmljIEFsdG1hbjEjMCEGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYUamFsdG1hbkBjb2x1bWJpYS5l ZHUwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQC+LutDu/YyHreNfoYd+ZtOjXsL h67F2cmcVuBPBz+ZGDA+WpVEHrqXaZZO8acXBR5uAVfiwA1acE/kvD/CN5kAqx1VJuQ8Pvyk iGHhUYTd27ZTliBIrptC7C/381gVwkS+a8jQFPJPO+OktZDzAYplGRY/MQCV8dIsvXUjucox 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rra@stanford.edu (Russ Allbery) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:17:03 -0700 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available In-Reply-To: <42C06C02.6060006@columbia.edu> (Jeffrey Altman's message of "Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:13:38 -0400") References: <20050627205633.3DE7729524@smtpauth.easystreet.com> <42C06C02.6060006@columbia.edu> Message-ID: <8764vz7b5c.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu> Jeffrey Altman writes: > While I am a strong believer that those who do the work get significant > points, there has been a significant lack of consensus on the tools you > selected to perform this work. There have been complaints that the > tools are too hard to use and that they cannot be used to produce one of > the required outputs: man pages. > There have been suggestions made that other tools are better suited for > this effort including: > * POD files > * DocBook > * HTML > Of these my preference is either POD or DocBook. I prefer DocBook > because it has been used extensively by other open source projects to > generate both man pages and online documentation. > I like DocBook because it can be used to produce Windows HtmlHelp files > as well as HTML and PDF. I think it's worth separating the format discussion somewhat between the man pages (aka the Administrators Reference Manual, since that's pretty much what that manual could be turned into and since it's already in a man-like format) and the other documentation such as the install and user's guide. POD is inappropriate for the install and user's guide and I would never suggest its use for that sort of a manual. DocBook could do all of these, certainly. I will argue for POD over DocBook *only* for the man pages, solely on the grounds of ease of editing the raw source. DocBook, being XML-based, suffers from the standard XML editing problems, and while those problems can be dealt with, I know that I personally can proofread and edit POD several times faster than DocBook and it's more amenable to simple tools like vi. I think this is a fairly compelling argument, although I do understand why people might want to use DocBook. Another nice argument in favor of POD is that most of the work is already done, although I expect the conversion script could be adapted to DocBook. Speaking from a somewhat biased position as the maintainer of the POD to man conversion tools, I also believe that POD produces noticably better nroff than DocBook, resulting in nicer formatting in the final man page. I only have a strong preference for the man page format; for the regular manual format, I'm happy to help with whatever format people find the most appealing. I know TeX, I know DocBook somewhat, I know HTML, and I know texinfo, and I'm willing to help edit documents in any of those formats. Going from straight TeX or LaTeX to man pages is not something I'd like to attempt, though. -- Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu) From tcreedon@easystreet.com Mon Jun 27 22:52:18 2005 From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:52:18 -0700 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available In-Reply-To: <8764vz7b5c.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <20050627215226.9CF2629527@smtpauth.easystreet.com> I didn't select the format - the users did after a mailing list discussion. Anyway, I have documentation that suits my needs and others in the afs community. Sounds like there will be 2 or 3 source formats to keep in sync. Feel free to produce what you will. I have something I can edit and will share it with the community either on SourceForge or elsewhere if not on the afs site. Keep me posted about content changes. tedc -----Original Message----- From: openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org [mailto:openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org] On Behalf Of Russ Allbery Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 2:17 PM To: openafs-doc@openafs.org Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available Jeffrey Altman writes: > While I am a strong believer that those who do the work get > significant points, there has been a significant lack of consensus on > the tools you selected to perform this work. There have been > complaints that the tools are too hard to use and that they cannot be > used to produce one of the required outputs: man pages. > There have been suggestions made that other tools are better suited > for this effort including: > * POD files > * DocBook > * HTML > Of these my preference is either POD or DocBook. I prefer DocBook > because it has been used extensively by other open source projects to > generate both man pages and online documentation. > I like DocBook because it can be used to produce Windows HtmlHelp > files as well as HTML and PDF. I think it's worth separating the format discussion somewhat between the man pages (aka the Administrators Reference Manual, since that's pretty much what that manual could be turned into and since it's already in a man-like format) and the other documentation such as the install and user's guide. POD is inappropriate for the install and user's guide and I would never suggest its use for that sort of a manual. DocBook could do all of these, certainly. I will argue for POD over DocBook *only* for the man pages, solely on the grounds of ease of editing the raw source. DocBook, being XML-based, suffers from the standard XML editing problems, and while those problems can be dealt with, I know that I personally can proofread and edit POD several times faster than DocBook and it's more amenable to simple tools like vi. I think this is a fairly compelling argument, although I do understand why people might want to use DocBook. Another nice argument in favor of POD is that most of the work is already done, although I expect the conversion script could be adapted to DocBook. Speaking from a somewhat biased position as the maintainer of the POD to man conversion tools, I also believe that POD produces noticably better nroff than DocBook, resulting in nicer formatting in the final man page. I only have a strong preference for the man page format; for the regular manual format, I'm happy to help with whatever format people find the most appealing. I know TeX, I know DocBook somewhat, I know HTML, and I know texinfo, and I'm willing to help edit documents in any of those formats. Going from straight TeX or LaTeX to man pages is not something I'd like to attempt, though. -- Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu) _______________________________________________ OpenAFS-doc mailing list OpenAFS-doc@openafs.org https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-doc From jaltman@columbia.edu Mon Jun 27 23:58:55 2005 From: jaltman@columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:58:55 -0400 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available In-Reply-To: <20050627215226.9CF2629527@smtpauth.easystreet.com> References: <20050627215226.9CF2629527@smtpauth.easystreet.com> Message-ID: <42C084AF.1040509@columbia.edu> This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms000605030004050404090907 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ted creedon wrote: > I didn't select the format - the users did after a mailing list discussion. > > Anyway, I have documentation that suits my needs and others in the afs > community. Sounds like there will be 2 or 3 source formats to keep in sync. > > Feel free to produce what you will. I have something I can edit and will > share it with the community either on SourceForge or elsewhere if not on the > afs site. > > Keep me posted about content changes. > > tedc Ted: Can you please point me at the mailing list discussion that resulted in the consensus to use laTex? 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-0700 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available In-Reply-To: <42C084AF.1040509@columbia.edu> Message-ID: <20050627232438.EBCEA29524@smtpauth.easystreet.com> See the Sept 2004 mailing list and the enclosed e-mails with the previous afs doc manager Renato Arruda. Renato had a Latex version of all the docs partially done and in cvs. There were several problems with Renato's sed scripts so html2latex was used instead... I suppose I could create diffs and update the Latex cvs archive, if its still there... <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Relevant off-line e-mail: Ted, I agree that TeX is a lot better for most situations, but when it comes down to man pages we can either do nroff or go with the info format from gnu. and i think nroff does the job well. Maybe i should work on getting them to LaTeX and then write a script to generate the nroff man pages. I guess i'll just try to finish up this script and familiarize myself with nroff and then convert the data from html to LaTeX. What part of the manual you are working on again? AFS Administrator's Guide AFS Administration Reference AFS Quick Start Guide for UNIX AFS Quick Start Guide for Windows NT/2000 AFS User's Guide I know i had a couple of those done in CVS, i'm pretty sure about AFS User's Guide though. I think i had some work on AFS Administrator's Guide, but I don't really know the status of the AFS Administration Guide. If you feel it's better to toss out some of that work and start fresh, i'm ok with that. Most of what's there was built using scripts i wrote myself which i lost when i lost my $HOME volume. I've been thinking actually that we could do some research on DocBook. Maybe we could use it to then generate LaTeX, HTML, PDF, nroff and all sorts of other file formats. The PHP Project uses it for their documentation and the result is pretty slick. More info on http://www.php.net/manual/howto/chapter-docbook.html . I'm not sure we want to move to it or not, since it could make things overly complex, but it's something worth looking at. -Renato ted creedon wrote: >Let me send you what I have Wed or thurs. > >I think LaTex is a better bet than nroff. >1. can emit pdf and html >2. self indexing >3. variables can be used to set up standard transarc/linux paths 4. >variables can be used to emit OS specific documents > >ted > >-----Original Message----- >From: Renato Arruda [mailto:email@rarruda.org] >Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 4:16 PM >To: ted creedon >Subject: Re: AFS Documentation > >Hi Ted, > >I fired off my new public ssh key to Derrick today. What i had done in >the past is on: > >http://openafs.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/openafs-doc/ > >(But it sure needs improvement, it's just a copy of what's in the HTML >pages/pdf files, it definetly could use some updating). > >Once i get access back i can commit your tex sources too if you wish, >or you can ask Derrick to get an account to do it yourself. > >Which files are you working on? I'd really rather that we don't start >stepping in each other's toes. Right now i am working on a php script >to convert the old man pages into a format that linux understands >(nroff/troff? i forget the exact name). I'm getting the data from >http://www.openafs.org/pages/doc/AdminReference/auarf002.htm#ToC_54 . > >-Renato > >ted creedon wrote: > > > >>It sure wouldn't hurt. >> >>I had a 740 page pdf file choke with Adobe and haven't had time to get >>back to it. The smaller documents work OK though. I'll be back in >>Portland wed-sun of this week after which I'm in Alaska for a month or 2. >> >> >Fortunately > > >>I have AFS... >> >>The intro worked out swell using a variable to include only the Linux >>sections. You can change the variable to get SUN, AIX or >>whatever..Printed it 4 pages per sheet double sided. Neat little handbook. >> >>Ted >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Renato Arruda [mailto:email@rarruda.org] >>Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:16 PM >>To: tcreedon@easystreet.com >>Subject: Re: AFS Documentation >> >>Ted, >> >> Should i talk to Derrick about trying to get the docs in cvs at >>openafs.org's server ? >> >>-Renato >> >>tcreedon@easystreet.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>I can set up subversion but I'd rather have an institution do it >>> >>>Lyx is Latex++ - but I can llive with Latex >>> >>>I did insers variables to allow printout of platform specific >>>manuals, the IBM docs are too bulky to use >>> >>>ted >>> >>>Original Message: >>>----------------- >>>From: Renato Arruda email@rarruda.org >>>Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:13:11 -0300 >>>To: tcreedon@easystreet.com >>>Subject: Re: AFS Documentation >>> >>> >>>Hi Ted, >>> >>>Does lyx create good LaTeX, human readable code ? I think we should >>>definetly use AFS with cvs or something like subversion for the >>>versioning system (or use a stand-alone cvs or subversion server). >>> >>>I'll wait to start until we all figure out what parts of the >>>documentation to convert and what metodologies we should use. >>> >>>-Renato >>> >>> >>>tcreedon@easystreet.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org [mailto:openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Altman Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:59 PM To: ted creedon Cc: 'Russ Allbery'; openafs-doc@openafs.org Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available ted creedon wrote: > I didn't select the format - the users did after a mailing list discussion. > > Anyway, I have documentation that suits my needs and others in the afs > community. Sounds like there will be 2 or 3 source formats to keep in sync. > > Feel free to produce what you will. I have something I can edit and > will share it with the community either on SourceForge or elsewhere if > not on the afs site. > > Keep me posted about content changes. > > tedc Ted: Can you please point me at the mailing list discussion that resulted in the consensus to use laTex? Jeffrey Altman From jaltman@columbia.edu Tue Jun 28 01:29:48 2005 From: jaltman@columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:29:48 -0400 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available In-Reply-To: <20050627232438.EBCEA29524@smtpauth.easystreet.com> References: <20050627232438.EBCEA29524@smtpauth.easystreet.com> Message-ID: <42C099FC.4060607@columbia.edu> This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms010106090004010800010803 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ted: The quoted e-mails were not part of an online discussion. The only posts that I see from Renato on any of the openafs mailing lists (openafs-info) was a reply to you on 1/1/2004 responding to your query for printable documentation. The discussion on the openafs-info list starting from your posting of 9/12/2004 did not produce a consensus. It was primarily a discussion between you and Tommie Gannert who was working on the Windows HTMLHelp documentation. Tommie wanted to use DocBook because of its ability to generate usable help files for Windows in addition to other output usable on non-Windows platforms. Tommie produced a set of output that allowed for autogeneration of the Windows help files in the Wiki as proof of concept as well as a HTMLHelp file. Unfortunately, Tommie has disappeared so I don't know whether the work he did will end up being usable. In any case, after the discussion which ended on 9/17/2004, you went and began a PDF to Tex conversion and requested volunteers to help. No one replied to the request on the list. The next posting on the subject came from you on 1/12/2005 indicating that you were predominately finished with the work. Esther at that time requested copies. There is no further traffic on the mailing lists. I assume that there was further traffic between the two of you that occurred privately. In fact I know there was because I was cc'd on some of it. I wish that last week when all of us were in Pittsburgh that we could have sat down for ten minutes. It was something I wanted to do. Unfortunately, my schedule last week was insane with meetings taking place during every break and meal. My concern is that you and Esther need to work together on this. It is my understanding that Esther is not satisfied with the choice of Latex as a source format. However, I can find no such objection made by her to any of the mailing lists. On the other hand, I can find no clear consensus on the mailing lists that the choice of Latex as the canonical source format is the right one. I know that you sent some of the PDF -> Latex -> HTML output to Esther and at one point she commented it was a good start. What I would like to see here is an agreement be reached on what the canonical format for the documentation should be. I don't want to see documentation be maintained by separate groups. In the long run that is a sure fire way of only making things worse than they are now. 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--------------ms010106090004010800010803-- From tcreedon@easystreet.com Tue Jun 28 02:28:25 2005 From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:28:25 -0700 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available In-Reply-To: <42C099FC.4060607@columbia.edu> Message-ID: <20050628012826.1302929526@smtpauth.easystreet.com> Renato, not Esther, was listed on the afs website the official afs person responsible for the documentation and he had started along the current route having already reproduced all the docs in Latex. Perhaps you should talk to him. You have what you have from me, plus Russ' POD stuff. That's more than a wish list that may never be done due to lack of skills&interest. There are already 2 incompatible versions waiting for cvs. If you want a third that's OK with me. Russ and I can keep our versions in sync.. There will be a current Latex version kept somewhere, there was enough positive input from some users at the conference to support that. tedc -----Original Message----- From: openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org [mailto:openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Altman Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 5:30 PM To: ted creedon Cc: openafs-doc@openafs.org Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available Ted: The quoted e-mails were not part of an online discussion. The only posts that I see from Renato on any of the openafs mailing lists (openafs-info) was a reply to you on 1/1/2004 responding to your query for printable documentation. The discussion on the openafs-info list starting from your posting of 9/12/2004 did not produce a consensus. It was primarily a discussion between you and Tommie Gannert who was working on the Windows HTMLHelp documentation. Tommie wanted to use DocBook because of its ability to generate usable help files for Windows in addition to other output usable on non-Windows platforms. Tommie produced a set of output that allowed for autogeneration of the Windows help files in the Wiki as proof of concept as well as a HTMLHelp file. Unfortunately, Tommie has disappeared so I don't know whether the work he did will end up being usable. In any case, after the discussion which ended on 9/17/2004, you went and began a PDF to Tex conversion and requested volunteers to help. No one replied to the request on the list. The next posting on the subject came from you on 1/12/2005 indicating that you were predominately finished with the work. Esther at that time requested copies. There is no further traffic on the mailing lists. I assume that there was further traffic between the two of you that occurred privately. In fact I know there was because I was cc'd on some of it. I wish that last week when all of us were in Pittsburgh that we could have sat down for ten minutes. It was something I wanted to do. Unfortunately, my schedule last week was insane with meetings taking place during every break and meal. My concern is that you and Esther need to work together on this. It is my understanding that Esther is not satisfied with the choice of Latex as a source format. However, I can find no such objection made by her to any of the mailing lists. On the other hand, I can find no clear consensus on the mailing lists that the choice of Latex as the canonical source format is the right one. I know that you sent some of the PDF -> Latex -> HTML output to Esther and at one point she commented it was a good start. What I would like to see here is an agreement be reached on what the canonical format for the documentation should be. I don't want to see documentation be maintained by separate groups. In the long run that is a sure fire way of only making things worse than they are now. Jeffrey Altman ted creedon wrote: > See the Sept 2004 mailing list and the enclosed e-mails with the > previous afs doc manager Renato Arruda. From shadow@dementia.org Tue Jun 28 02:55:04 2005 From: shadow@dementia.org (Derrick J Brashear) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available Message-ID: [] > There are already 2 incompatible versions waiting for cvs. If you want a > third that's OK with me. Russ and I can keep our versions in sync.. Because lord knows what an understaffed project is many people doing the same work repeatedly. > There will be a current Latex version kept somewhere, there was enough > positive input from some users at the conference to support that. All I'll say is it would be nice if there could be one master version all the others could be generated from, which could be updated when contributions of new functionality came in at the same time and in the same place. Hand maintenance of many versions sucks, and will inevitably lead to skew. Skew sucks more. From jhutz@cmu.edu Tue Jun 28 03:00:08 2005 From: jhutz@cmu.edu (Jeffrey Hutzelman) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:00:08 -0400 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] A little history... Message-ID: Ted Creedon wrote: > Renato, not Esther, was listed on the afs website the official afs person > responsible for the documentation and he had started along the current > route having already reproduced all the docs in Latex. The CVS logs do not agree: 1.1 (shadow 18-Jul-01):

Better Documentation

1.1 (shadow 18-Jul-01):

Contact Esther Filderman (moose@cmu.edu)

1.1 (shadow 18-Jul-01):
From tcreedon@easystreet.com Tue Jun 28 03:11:08 2005 From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:11:08 -0700 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] A little history... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050628021109.22F6BB01E@smtpauth.easystreet.com> I got his e-mail off the doc portion of the website. Period. She did not reply to my "Does anyone have a preference? " e-mail... ted -----Original Message----- From: openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org [mailto:openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Hutzelman Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 7:00 PM To: openafs-doc@openafs.org Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] A little history... Ted Creedon wrote: > Renato, not Esther, was listed on the afs website the official afs > person responsible for the documentation and he had started along the > current route having already reproduced all the docs in Latex. The CVS logs do not agree: 1.1 (shadow 18-Jul-01):

Better Documentation

1.1 (shadow 18-Jul-01):

Contact Esther Filderman (moose@cmu.edu)

1.1 (shadow 18-Jul-01):
_______________________________________________ OpenAFS-doc mailing list OpenAFS-doc@openafs.org https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-doc From ecf@psc.edu Tue Jun 28 03:45:28 2005 From: ecf@psc.edu (Esther Filderman) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:45:28 -0400 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] A little history... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:11:08 PDT." <20050628021109.22F6BB01E@smtpauth.easystreet.com> Message-ID: <200506280245.j5S2jSrB030334@pscuxa.psc.edu> "she" spent a sizeable chunk of 2004 in the hospital, thank you. From ecf@psc.edu Tue Jun 28 03:55:48 2005 From: ecf@psc.edu (Esther Filderman) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:55:48 -0400 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:24:38 PDT." <20050627232438.EBCEA29524@smtpauth.easystreet.com> Message-ID: <200506280255.j5S2tmob030562@pscuxa.psc.edu> Ok, look. There are certain requirements here: 1) We should be using one system. 2) It should be simple enough for a non-programmer to use. [Like, say, ME.] It should not require "special instructions" to update files. 3) It *MUST* generate, at the minimum, both some sort of "printable format" and html. HTML is a *must* for the website. I would rather try to preserve the conversion that Ted has done but I am not convinced that LaTex is the right format to be using for everything, mostly because generating solid HTML seems to be such a problem. There are tools to convert LaTex to DocBook [amusingly, there are tools to convert POD *to* LaTex but not the other way, that I can find]. Perhaps that's the way we should go. I'm still researching DocBook & POD. I've also still got pneumonia and am not up to speed on life. e. From tcreedon@easystreet.com Tue Jun 28 04:37:52 2005 From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:37:52 -0700 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available In-Reply-To: <200506280255.j5S2tmob030562@pscuxa.psc.edu> Message-ID: <20050628033752.4E37BB01D@smtpauth.easystreet.com> The many steps are only to convert the IBM.htm into editable Latex. IBM uses quite a variety of special characters in their text. This is a one time conversion. Kerberos V and continuing maintenance scripts are not covered well in the documents so a combination of text and commands cut and pasted into a \begin {alltt} .... \end{alltt} can be done without worrying about the formatting. I'll probably add Russ's tools in as needed. I'll probably replace the IBM convention of with a shell variable $S so commands can be cut and directly pasted into an xterm. Currently I am editing the Latex documents directly and incorporating other materials into my documents. Piece of cake. I'm using html and pdf generated from these Latex source documents. I prefer to: "acroread auarf003.pdf auagd003.pdf auqbg003.pdf auusg003.pdf&" All 4 Unix manuals are in one window and for once I have readable, linked, searchable, uptodate documentation. (The html is not as visually correct as the pdf but it does browse). When something better arrives.... tedc -----Original Message----- From: openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org [mailto:openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org] On Behalf Of Esther Filderman Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 7:56 PM To: openafs-doc@openafs.org Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available Ok, look. There are certain requirements here: 1) We should be using one system. 2) It should be simple enough for a non-programmer to use. [Like, say, ME.] It should not require "special instructions" to update files. 3) It *MUST* generate, at the minimum, both some sort of "printable format" and html. HTML is a *must* for the website. I would rather try to preserve the conversion that Ted has done but I am not convinced that LaTex is the right format to be using for everything, mostly because generating solid HTML seems to be such a problem. There are tools to convert LaTex to DocBook [amusingly, there are tools to convert POD *to* LaTex but not the other way, that I can find]. Perhaps that's the way we should go. I'm still researching DocBook & POD. I've also still got pneumonia and am not up to speed on life. e. _______________________________________________ OpenAFS-doc mailing list OpenAFS-doc@openafs.org https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-doc From ecf@psc.edu Tue Jun 28 19:06:07 2005 From: ecf@psc.edu (Esther Filderman) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:06:07 -0400 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:20:59 PDT." <20050628152059.A0B39B01C@smtpauth.easystreet.com> Message-ID: <200506281806.j5SI67hv032235@pscuxa.psc.edu> First of all, please keep all documentation discussions on the mailing list. Do not mail me privately. The HTML files are big huge masses. These need to be broken down further. HTML is the most common way people will read the documentation [after man pages, but that's another ball of wax]. People will do as they do now, take quick looks on the online HTML documentation. We also need to be able to generate indexes for each documentation collection [ie admin guide, windows guide, etc]. e. Turns out that the html is now generated from the same .tex files as pdf Run tth au*003.tex instead of pdflatex au003.tex; No changes to the .tex files are required. The reason for doing the html first was to verify the correctness of the conversion using diff on the source and final files. tth is copyrighted and licensed for free use by non profits so I deleted it from the current. tedc -----Original Message----- From: openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org [mailto:openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org] On Behalf Of Esther Filderman Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 7:56 PM To: openafs-doc@openafs.org Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available Ok, look. There are certain requirements here: 1) We should be using one system. 2) It should be simple enough for a non-programmer to use. [Like, say, ME.] It should not require "special instructions" to update files. 3) It *MUST* generate, at the minimum, both some sort of "printable format" and html. HTML is a *must* for the website. I would rather try to preserve the conversion that Ted has done but I am not convinced that LaTex is the right format to be using for everything, mostly because generating solid HTML seems to be such a problem. There are tools to convert LaTex to DocBook [amusingly, there are tools to convert POD *to* LaTex but not the other way, that I can find]. Perhaps that's the way we should go. I'm still researching DocBook & POD. I've also still got pneumonia and am not up to speed on life. e. _______________________________________________ OpenAFS-doc mailing list OpenAFS-doc@openafs.org https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-doc From tcreedon@easystreet.com Tue Jun 28 20:12:37 2005 From: tcreedon@easystreet.com (ted creedon) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:12:37 -0700 Subject: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available In-Reply-To: <200506281806.j5SI67hv032235@pscuxa.psc.edu> Message-ID: <20050628191237.640C229524@smtpauth.easystreet.com> Then you'll have to go to the html directory, they're set up that way there and do link from file to file. (There are several hundred small files). In the pdf directory the files are included. The untarred html's are about 4mb, tarred 800K. If indexing is needed that will have to be added by hand \index{foo} or if \shortindexingon is used _{foo}. The current index is 3 levels deep which latex supports but there's no way to replicate that level of detail unless done by hand. Normally a professional indexer does that. As I've said, the IBM documentation is very well done. tedc -----Original Message----- From: openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org [mailto:openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org] On Behalf Of Esther Filderman Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:06 AM To: openafs-doc@openafs.org Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available First of all, please keep all documentation discussions on the mailing list. Do not mail me privately. The HTML files are big huge masses. These need to be broken down further. HTML is the most common way people will read the documentation [after man pages, but that's another ball of wax]. People will do as they do now, take quick looks on the online HTML documentation. We also need to be able to generate indexes for each documentation collection [ie admin guide, windows guide, etc]. e. Turns out that the html is now generated from the same .tex files as pdf Run tth au*003.tex instead of pdflatex au003.tex; No changes to the .tex files are required. The reason for doing the html first was to verify the correctness of the conversion using diff on the source and final files. tth is copyrighted and licensed for free use by non profits so I deleted it from the current. tedc -----Original Message----- From: openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org [mailto:openafs-doc-admin@openafs.org] On Behalf Of Esther Filderman Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 7:56 PM To: openafs-doc@openafs.org Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-Doc] Final (from Latex) pdf's and html's available Ok, look. There are certain requirements here: 1) We should be using one system. 2) It should be simple enough for a non-programmer to use. [Like, say, ME.] It should not require "special instructions" to update files. 3) It *MUST* generate, at the minimum, both some sort of "printable format" and html. HTML is a *must* for the website. I would rather try to preserve the conversion that Ted has done but I am not convinced that LaTex is the right format to be using for everything, mostly because generating solid HTML seems to be such a problem. There are tools to convert LaTex to DocBook [amusingly, there are tools to convert POD *to* LaTex but not the other way, that I can find]. Perhaps that's the way we should go. I'm still researching DocBook & POD. I've also still got pneumonia and am not up to speed on life. e. _______________________________________________ OpenAFS-doc mailing list OpenAFS-doc@openafs.org https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-doc _______________________________________________ OpenAFS-doc mailing list OpenAFS-doc@openafs.org https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-doc