[OpenAFS] Re: the notion of "site" is not always well-defined / "project cells"

[Jeffrey Altman]

This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

--------------ms010309040008070107030209
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ken Hornstein wrote:
>> This is the strange part: no such power exists here.
>>
>> Maybe it's "a Berkeley thing".  My personal interpretation is that
>> people act as if "nothing is any more official than the number of
>> people you've persuaded to rely on it".  The majority of the people in
>> the department retain exclusive administrative control of their own
>> workstation.  This is true in many other departments here as well.
> 
> I feel your pain; I'm in the exact same situation.  Multiply this by 50
> different organizations, and you realize that it's a tough problem.
> 
> The difference here is that our users _have_ to use our systems to get
> their work done (research grant money hinges on this).  As a result,
> they are highly motivated (someone else might used the word "forced")
> to download our software and configuration files.  If you don't have
> this kind of leverage, I can imagine that you'll be fighting an uphill
> battle.  The pain of dealing with this is the reason I'm willing to
> trade what I believe is a small security risk (getting configuration
> information in an insecure manner) for what is a HUGE gain in
> manageability.  Sadly, decisions were made along the way to make it so
> the default out-of-the-box system setup was tilted more toward security
> rather than manageability.  To be fair, this is more related to
> Kerberos than OpenAFS ... you should be bugging the Kerberos people
> about that (but the reception you're going to get there will be even
> frostier than the one you've gotten from the OpenAFS people).
> 
> --Ken

I am a strong believer that security is meaningless if it is so
difficult to use that end users will ignore it.  The lesson I took
from SSH was that for the vast majority of users and administrators
it is acceptable for the configuration data (the host's key) to be
obtained once via an insecure manner and then warn the user if the
data ever changes.  I could conceivably add code to the Identity
Manager that would obtain data from DNS in an untrusted manner,
cache it in the form of configuration data with a time stamp and
marker of some kind, and then annoy the user if things change.

This is not going to be as secure as manually distributed config
files but would be more secure than always querying DNS.

Its just a thought.

Jeffrey Altman

--------------ms010309040008070107030209
Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s"
Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
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--------------ms010309040008070107030209--