[OpenAFS] Funding the formation of an OpenAFS Foundation
Ted Creedon
tcreedon@easystreet.net
Fri, 28 Sep 2012 02:33:34 -0700
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If IBM wants backward compatibility they should pay for it. They're
coasting on your work.
What's in a name? Who cares?
Time to move on despite the risks. I'm willing to pay for AFS as long as I
have access to sources under NDA, license or whatever.
Ted
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:49 PM, Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> wrote:
> Troy Benjegerdes <hozer@hozed.org> writes:
>
> > So here's a general question for the list: Would you rather see OpenAFS
> > end with a bang because the community imploded, or with a whimper when
> > all the AFS admins that have been carrying the torch retire and the new
> > CIO moves everyone to iCloud or google drive?
>
> Given those choices (which represent a false dichotomy, but fine, let's
> have this argument anyway), a whimper, because being nasty to other people
> is simply not okay, makes the world a worse place all around, and almost
> never actually helps.
>
> One of the deep flaws in the open source community at large right now,
> seen in all sorts of different projects, is that it has rather a large
> share of technically-competent abrasive assholes who really *like* being
> assholes and don't want to change, and who have therefore invented a
> marvellous little story that they tell themselves about how their behavior
> is actually courageous truthtelling, brutal honesty, a refusal to "settle
> for the status quo," or otherwise part of why they're able to accomplish
> so much good work. It's all bullshit. They're just technically-competent
> people who also happen to be assholes.
>
> The actual reason why so much open source work is done by such people is
> not because they're better at it. It's because they drive off everyone
> who doesn't "have thick skin" or "enjoys robust exchanges of views" or
> whatever today's euphemism is for tolerating abusive behavior, and then
> use the fact that all surviving project members interact like they do as
> proof that their social behavior is acceptable. It's a self-selecting,
> self-perpetuating ecosystem that I'm increasingly uninterested in
> tolerating.
>
> It's also not actually productive. There are more technically-competent
> people in the world who like supportive, cooperative projects with
> functional, adult social expectations than people who thrive on abrasive
> conflict. If one stops tolerating abusive people, one often finds all
> sorts of people contributing who otherwise would take one look at the
> prevailing tone and just quietly walk away. Everyone is abrasive
> sometimes, but most people *try* not to be and apologize when they slip,
> and those are the kind of people I want to work with. It's also the kind
> of person that I want to be, and one starts to emulate the people one
> interacts with, for good or for ill. There are lots of places I could
> spend my time productively; the nature of the community is a primary
> selection criteria. (I could also go off on an extended discussion of how
> this particular pattern is deeply entangled with the gender bias in open
> source, but I'll spare you.)
>
> Besides, whether one attracts more developers that way or not, it's simply
> the right thing to do, at a level that's considerably more important than
> whether AFS survives as a technology or not.
>
> --
> Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenAFS-info mailing list
> OpenAFS-info@openafs.org
> https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info
>
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If IBM wants backward compatibility they should pay for it. They're coa=
sting on your work.<br><br>What's in a name? Who cares?<br><br>Time to =
move on despite the risks. I'm willing to pay for AFS as long as I have=
access to sources under NDA, license or whatever.<br>
<br>Ted<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:49 PM,=
Russ Allbery <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:rra@stanford.edu" tar=
get=3D"_blank">rra@stanford.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im">Troy Benjegerdes <<a href=3D"mailto:hozer@hozed.org">h=
ozer@hozed.org</a>> writes:<br>
<br>
> So here's a general question for the list: Would you rather see Op=
enAFS<br>
> end with a bang because the community imploded, or with a whimper when=
<br>
> all the AFS admins that have been carrying the torch retire and the ne=
w<br>
> CIO moves everyone to iCloud or google drive?<br>
<br>
</div>Given those choices (which represent a false dichotomy, but fine, let=
's<br>
have this argument anyway), a whimper, because being nasty to other people<=
br>
is simply not okay, makes the world a worse place all around, and almost<br=
>
never actually helps.<br>
<br>
One of the deep flaws in the open source community at large right now,<br>
seen in all sorts of different projects, is that it has rather a large<br>
share of technically-competent abrasive assholes who really *like* being<br=
>
assholes and don't want to change, and who have therefore invented a<br=
>
marvellous little story that they tell themselves about how their behavior<=
br>
is actually courageous truthtelling, brutal honesty, a refusal to "set=
tle<br>
for the status quo," or otherwise part of why they're able to acco=
mplish<br>
so much good work. =A0It's all bullshit. =A0They're just technicall=
y-competent<br>
people who also happen to be assholes.<br>
<br>
The actual reason why so much open source work is done by such people is<br=
>
not because they're better at it. =A0It's because they drive off ev=
eryone<br>
who doesn't "have thick skin" or "enjoys robust exchange=
s of views" or<br>
whatever today's euphemism is for tolerating abusive behavior, and then=
<br>
use the fact that all surviving project members interact like they do as<br=
>
proof that their social behavior is acceptable. =A0It's a self-selectin=
g,<br>
self-perpetuating ecosystem that I'm increasingly uninterested in<br>
tolerating.<br>
<br>
It's also not actually productive. =A0There are more technically-compet=
ent<br>
people in the world who like supportive, cooperative projects with<br>
functional, adult social expectations than people who thrive on abrasive<br=
>
conflict. =A0If one stops tolerating abusive people, one often finds all<br=
>
sorts of people contributing who otherwise would take one look at the<br>
prevailing tone and just quietly walk away. =A0Everyone is abrasive<br>
sometimes, but most people *try* not to be and apologize when they slip,<br=
>
and those are the kind of people I want to work with. =A0It's also the =
kind<br>
of person that I want to be, and one starts to emulate the people one<br>
interacts with, for good or for ill. =A0There are lots of places I could<br=
>
spend my time productively; the nature of the community is a primary<br>
selection criteria. =A0(I could also go off on an extended discussion of ho=
w<br>
this particular pattern is deeply entangled with the gender bias in open<br=
>
source, but I'll spare you.)<br>
<br>
Besides, whether one attracts more developers that way or not, it's sim=
ply<br>
the right thing to do, at a level that's considerably more important th=
an<br>
whether AFS survives as a technology or not.<br>
<div class=3D"im HOEnZb"><br>
--<br>
Russ Allbery (<a href=3D"mailto:rra@stanford.edu">rra@stanford.edu</a>) =A0=
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 <<a href=3D"http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/</a>><br>
</div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">_____________________________=
__________________<br>
OpenAFS-info mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:OpenAFS-info@openafs.org">OpenAFS-info@openafs.org</a><br=
>
<a href=3D"https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info" target=
=3D"_blank">https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
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