[OpenAFS] CellServDB
Phillip Moore
w.phillip.moore@gmail.com
Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:03:16 -0400
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This is a *classic* case of blaming the wrong software product for a
problem.
It's not the CellServDB that's not user friendly, it's the software product
making stupid, incorrect assumptions about the filesystem.
Would you accuse DNS of being broken it some brain-dead software product
wasn't "user friendly" just because it enumerated the entire root and .com
zones? I admit that not as trivial to do by accident as ls -al */*, but
the point is that what's broken here is that software product, NOT DNS, or
AFS, or it's CellServDB file.
I would argue that any software product that makes an assumption like this
will never be user friendly in an environment with distributed filesystems.
If you were using an automounter of some kind with NFS, you might have a
similar issue, although AFS certainly compounds the problem by giving you
access to remote cells over the Internet.
Problems like this are best solved by *you* changing the CellServDB file in
your environment, or by working with the vendor of the software product to
get them to change it's anti-social behavior.
Asking the OpenAFS community to "fix" this by getting rid of the default
CellServDB file is absolutely wrong.
I will, however, agree that if there are known, non-working sites in the
default CellServDB, they should be cleaned up, but even if that's done, it
doesn't solve your problem. If you have setup /afs with access to the
published, global public AFS cells, then the reality is that you have
exposed yourself to suffering when anti-social software stumbles upon /afs,
and acts stupidly.
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Mattias Pantzare <pantzer@ludd.ltu.se>wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 18:15, Derrick Brashear <shadow@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Mattias Pantzare <pantzer@ludd.ltu.se>
> wrote:
> >> Is it not time to remove the default CellServDB? Or at least remove
> >> not working entries?
> >>
> >> Some programs try to be user friendly by doing the equivalent of echo
> >> */* in /afs. That will take a _very_ long time (if it ever finishes)
> >> with the default CellServDB.
> >
> > -fakestat-all is your friend, but really, */*? what program?
>
> I have -fakestatt-all. That does not help.
>
> Intellij IDEA, it tries to be friendly by only listing directories
> that contains things that may be of interest.
>
> >
> >> And it is not very user friendly to list a bunch of directories that
> don't work.
> >
> > So you're never behind a firewall? What works is relative. And what
> > works for you is relative. Choose what you wish and use that.
>
> Huh? I am often behind a firewall.
>
> I am _not_ talking about removing CellServeDB, I am talking about
> removing the _default_ CellServeDB. You can still add your DB servers
> to your own CellServeDB.
>
> The current CellServeDB in the distribution is simply not user
> friendly. The only sites that may benefit from it are those that are
> in it. It is of no use for new sites.
> _______________________________________________
> OpenAFS-info mailing list
> OpenAFS-info@openafs.org
> https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info
>
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This is a *classic* case of blaming the wrong software product for a proble=
m.<div><br></div><div>It's not the CellServDB that's not user frien=
dly, it's the software product making stupid, incorrect assumptions abo=
ut the filesystem.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Would you accuse DNS of being broken it some brain-dead=
software product wasn't "user friendly" just because it enum=
erated the entire root and .com zones? =A0 I admit that not as trivial to d=
o by accident as ls -al */*, but the point is that what's broken here i=
s that software product, NOT DNS, or AFS, or it's CellServDB file.</div=
>
<div><br></div><div>I would argue that any software product that makes an a=
ssumption like this will never be user friendly in an environment with dist=
ributed filesystems. =A0If you were using an automounter of some kind with =
NFS, you might have a similar issue, although AFS certainly compounds the p=
roblem by giving you access to remote cells over the Internet.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Problems like this are best solved by *you* changing th=
e CellServDB file in your environment, or by working with the vendor of the=
software product to get them to change it's anti-social behavior.</div=
>
<div><br></div><div>Asking the OpenAFS community to "fix" this by=
getting rid of the default CellServDB file is absolutely wrong.</div><div>=
<br></div><div>I will, however, agree that if there are known, non-working =
sites in the default CellServDB, they should be cleaned up, but even if tha=
t's done, it doesn't solve your problem. =A0 If you have setup /afs=
with access to the published, global public AFS cells, then the reality is=
that you have exposed yourself to suffering when anti-social software stum=
bles upon /afs, and acts stupidly.<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Mattias Pan=
tzare <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:pantzer@ludd.ltu.se">pantzer@=
ludd.ltu.se</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class=3D"im">On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 18:15, Derrick Brashear <<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:shadow@gmail.com">shadow@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Mattias Pantzare <<a href=3D"mail=
to:pantzer@ludd.ltu.se">pantzer@ludd.ltu.se</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Is it not time to remove the default CellServDB? Or at least remov=
e<br>
>> not working entries?<br>
>><br>
>> Some programs try to be user friendly by doing the equivalent of e=
cho<br>
>> */* in /afs. That will take a _very_ long time (if it ever finishe=
s)<br>
>> with the default CellServDB.<br>
><br>
> -fakestat-all is your friend, but really, */*? what program?<br>
<br>
</div>I have -fakestatt-all. That does not help.<br>
<br>
Intellij IDEA, it tries to be friendly by only listing directories<br>
that contains things that may be of interest.<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
><br>
>> And it is not very user friendly to list a bunch of directories th=
at don't work.<br>
><br>
> So you're never behind a firewall? What works is relative. And wha=
t<br>
> works for you is relative. Choose what you wish and use that.<br>
<br>
</div>Huh? I am often behind a firewall.<br>
<br>
I am _not_ talking about removing CellServeDB, I am talking about<br>
removing the _default_ CellServeDB. You can still add your DB servers<br>
to your own CellServeDB.<br>
<br>
The current CellServeDB in the distribution is simply not user<br>
friendly. The only sites that may benefit from it are those that are<br>
in it. It is of no use for new sites.<br>
<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">_________________________________________=
______<br>
OpenAFS-info mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:OpenAFS-info@openafs.org">OpenAFS-info@openafs.org</a><br=
>
<a href=3D"https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info" target=
=3D"_blank">https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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